and Tina Keeper
(Click on photo for larger image.)
PW: Tell me how you wound up on "North of 60."
PKG: Well, I went through a very difficult period where things just were just not happening. I don't think I worked for about five months, maybe had two or three auditions. All of a sudden, I landed a guest starring role on "Lonesome Dove: The Series." I had auditioned for it twice, and was shortlisted for a really interesting role. It was between me and another actor. And when I didn't get that, they wrote me a part in one of the upcoming episodes, which was a wonderful compliment. And then I did a wonderful guest spot on a show called "Psi Factor," and then I got this call to come out and audition for this part for "North of 60." I read the material I was supposed to audition with, and I just said, "This character is me. I love this guy." This character resonated with me. I kind of knew who he was.
PW: This was late in the fifth season?
PKG: No, that's the funny thing about it. It was in the fifth season, but very early on. [James] was supposed to come in with, I would say, a good seven or eight episodes left. I went out and did this audition, and I thought it was the best audition I'd ever done in my life. But two things happened: Mervin [Good Eagle] committed suicide, I think maybe the week after I auditioned, and CBC canceled the show. They went public and canceled the show.
So the producers said, "Well, what's the point in introducing a new character now? It makes absolutely no sense." I hadn't heard back from them for a few weeks, which didn't coordinate with what they'd said would happen. So I spoke with my agent, she contacted them, and they explained, "Well, one of our actors committed suicide and it's created quite a disturbing feeling on the set. And the show's been canceled. But there's a chance that they might want to do a couple more episodes, and we're just trying to figure things out."
Eventually what happened was, there was an adverse fallout because they'd gone public about the cancellation of the show. I think there were petitions sent in with like thousands and thousands of signatures. I think the CBC web site was swarmed with emails saying "How can you," "How dare you," and all of this stuff. So they decided to renew for 13 episodes. But by the time they got all that figured out, the season had basically wound down, and they brought me in for the last episode.
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and Tina Keeper (Click on photo for larger image.) |
PW: Although Mervin Good Eagle's death affected everyone, the main reason they didn't bring you in as planned was because of the cancellation of the show, right? His death didn't directly affect whether they brought you in.
PKG: No, it didn't really affect it, but I think don't think anybody was feeling creative or inspired to write in a new character. So they delayed it, and I finally got on in the last episode of season five.
PW: By that time, did they know there was going to be a sixth season?
PKG: No. It was looking good, but there was no confirmation on it. So we had to change our arrangement. I was supposed to sign a contract with five-year exclusivity or whatever, and we ended up doing a one-episode guest-spot type of contract, because they couldn't commit beyond that.
PW: So as far as you knew, it might just be that one episode.
PKG: That's the way I approached it. I think I found out a few months later, or maybe six weeks later, that they had gotten the go-ahead for 13 more episodes.
PW: This was after you had filmed that episode?
PKG: Filmed it, gone home. I think I was being considered for "Stargate" or one of those episodics. I remember there was a period there for a good couple of weeks when I didn't know, I thought that was it.
PW: But then they got the word they could go ahead.
PKG: Yeah, and they contacted me. The initial contract was kind of minimalistic in terms of guaranteed shooting dates and stuff, and I figured, well I guess they don't know what they want to do with the character, or how prevalent he's going to be in the storyline. It's interesting, because I'd never been on an episodic before, and it was interesting to see the process of storyboarding the character. They had a couple of avenues in mind for me where this character could go. I don't even know at what point they decided I was going to go in this direction.
PW: Were you a fan of the show?
PKG: I have to answer that question honestly. No, I wasn't. I'm not a big television [viewer]. I have my shows that I watch. "North of 60," I never gave it a chance. I don't even know if I spent five minutes watching it. But I'll tell you, there's a good reason sometimes. "North of 60," when it was being developed, when they were doing the initial casting search for the inaugural season, at that time I was in Montreal, and my agent said, "There's this series that's looking for actors, and they're going to be coming to Montreal. I can get you work as a reader." Do you know what a reader is?
PW: No, I sure don't.
PKG: A reader is somebody who reads lines for actors who are auditioning.
PW: Oh, you mean they play the other character in the scene.
PKG: They play all the other characters. And they sit there, and they read the lines to the actor while he's being taped during the audition.
PW: So this would have been a way to get you visible to these people?
PKG: Well, this is what she thought. Because she said the character--and it was, ironically, the character of Peter Kenidi, and in talking to Tom Jackson later, I found out they asked him. They said, "We're doing the show and we'd like you to be Peter Kenidi." And the character is much older and yadayada. But at the time, it's a new series, and nobody really knows. So I had gone in there and read for characters and stuff. Susan Morgan, who's the creative consultant for CBC, was conducting the auditions, and she didn't ask me to read a part. So sometimes what happens with me is I don't like to see work that, usually it's when I've auditioned for something, I don't want to see it, if I didn't get it. Sometimes it's when I audition, if I feel like, "Well, you didn't even give me a chance to read." I think it's fair to the work that was done by the different actors, and also, it doesn't put me in a position where I look and I go, you know what I mean?
PW: You aren't watching and thinking, "I could have done that better."
PKG: It's of no value to me, and it's of no value to them.
PW: It would be easy to get distracted by those thoughts.
PKG: Totally. So what I did is, I think I watched maybe the last couple of episodes prior to me going out and taping to get a general feel for the energy of the show and the style. But that was it.
PW: James came back in the sixth season. Was it a little scary for you? By this time, five years had gone by, these characters were beloved by millions of viewers, and all of a sudden, here's this new guy on the scene, this cocky James Harper who's gotten assigned to the backwaters because of a foulup he made. Was that tough to come on with all these established characters and hope you'd be accepted?
PKG: In a way, yes. In a way, no. In terms of the personalities, the actual actors and everybody involved with "North of 60," it's the greatest place to work in the world. So in terms of the people, it wasn't difficult.
PW: I was thinking more of the audience reaction.
PKG: Well yeah, there's a couple things. First of all, I found doing episodic very hard work. See, I like the stage. I like to look at a scene, put it away, take it out again. When you're doing an episodic, you don't have those opportunities.
PW: No three months of rehearsal.
PKG: No rehearsal! And also, "North of 60" always, always had the reputation of shooting more pages than it could put on the show. Let me give you an idea. When I do a guest spot on an American show that's an hour episodic, a drama show. They'll shoot 48 pages to maybe 52, 54 pages maximum for that hour. They'll shoot it in eight days. We shot in five days, and we shot religiously between 68 and 70 pages. Also, you're in Calgary. Now, Calgary has the distinction of being able to go from a snowstorm to sunshine and birds and buds on the trees. So sometimes you have to make huge switches.
I remember one experience...everything in the detachment is always held for weather coverage. So if we have a bad day outside where they can't match the scene to the next scene, we go inside. We went inside one time, because there was a big snowstorm in June, and it was the episode, remember where I was interrogating a guy who I thought was involved in Michelle's shooting? He was a biker or something? The interrogation was a five-and-a-half-page scene where I'm basically talking all the time, and a lot of it is expository dialogue, where you're saying "We have you in a white Camaro, license plate number..." blah blah blah.
Well, we'd had a big snowstorm the night before, and we were doing another episode, and all of a sudden at 10 o'clock at night, I get a new sheet for the next day, and I've got twelve and a half pages of new dialogue to learn. And I've got call at like 6:45 a.m. This I found really, really intimidating doing episodic work. I found it really exhausting. Because I like to work really hard, and I love to really dig in and look for through-lines and themes and all of this stuff. So for me, it was really an exercise in learning a new way of working. Working faster, working more efficiently. For me, I'm ready to do more and more takes. I'm like David Caruso; he was never happy with his work. He always wanted to do more and more and more. That's how I am. I could work for free, I love the craft so much. So for me, it was a tremendous challenge to get on top of that, to actually feel that you were making choices that you could live with. So that part of it I found difficult.
Also, in answer to your question, yeah, I knew enough about the show to know that the character of Michelle was a really well loved character. So here you are, you're putting this antagonistic character in a situation with her, and I'm like, how am I going to make people understand him and like him enough that they're going to listen to him and not just say, "I don't like him 'cuz he doesn't like Michelle." I get that.
There's a reviewer in Montreal who reviewed "In the Blue Ground" and "Trial by Fire," and he loves Peter [Kenidi], loves Peter. And there's always a little thing about me where he says, "I don't know why he's so mean to her." But he says it in a way, I look at it and I say, "What am I supposed to do about this?" He's saying it's a poor acting choice because I'm short-fused with her, I don't treat her right. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. You're in love with her and you just can't imagine how someone else can...you know what I mean? So it's kind of funny. But I've found some interesting reactions.
PW: Speaking of the movies, how have they been for you, compared with your time in the series?
PKG: Personally, I like the format of the movies better. It just suits my energy better as an actor. But some of the feedback from audience members have left me with a smile. This one woman told me, "You know what the problem is with James Harper? He has to go back to kindergarten. He's a spoiled little boy." And I laughed.
PW: But it's true!
PKG: It is! And it's kinda cool. And also, the thing I like about doing the movies, too, is...you see, I only did a year with the character, right? For me, there's so much more that I want to do just in terms of making this character, all his little quirks and idiosyncrasies, just fleshing them out. I'd love to get more backstory for the character, and I've talked with the producers about that.
PW: That would be great.
PKG: When I did this last film ["Dream Storm"], there was supposed to be a love story for James Harper, but it didn't get put in because it was a backstory. And the way they were going to do it, it was so intelligent. It wasn't just, hey, we need a story, let's give him a love interest. It was very intelligent. There was a reason, and there was a perfect opportunity, because [James] had just left to undergo psychiatric counseling, and there was a relationship which came out of that. And I thought, that would be credible with James.
PW: Was that counseling after the incident where he killed...
PKG: Yeah, at the end of "Trial by Fire." So it would have been perfect right now. The window of opportunity was there in this new movie. But it got taken out. But I had a really nice talk with Tom Cox when I wrapped on this film, and I said, "It's important for backstory with this character, because you can only take the arrogance and the cop work so far in terms of audience interest." I think one of the reasons they identify so much with Michelle is because they know so much about her.
PW: But when James first comes up, he's very angry and resentful and is trying to get out of Lynx River as soon as possible. But even in the remaining episodes of the last season, and especially in the first two movies that have aired, we're already seeing changes in him. A little loosening up, more appreciation for the community. Don't you feel that?
PKG: I do feel that, because that's what I tried to do. To me, ideally, it would be wonderful to get him to a point where we see the old James, those moments would kind of like little accents that would pop up once in a while, because that's who he is. But it's not with him all the time. I want to see the guy smile more, you know what I mean? I want to see him joke more! I'm continuously looking for moments like that, and I'm continuously looking at the writing. Andrew [Wreggitt] wrote some wonderful stuff, but sometimes it gets kicked out. To give you an instance, you know the big party scene in "Trial by Fire," where everybody's partying?
PW: The opening of the lodge party?
PKG: The opening of the lodge. Well, Andrew had written in those scenes, "You see Andrew dancing with Bertha." But the director never even filmed those moments. And I say, "That's important. Why did you throw those out? You guys haven't read the script the way I have. They're there because we see him loosening up. We see him part of the community, dancing. It's little moments like that that humanize him."
And that's why when I talked with Tom, I said, "You gotta have that stuff. We don't even have me jogging any more. All we have me doing is showing up in my cop stuff. I don't have a family and I don't have a girlfriend." And I wonder, what does he do at night? We know Tina does this, and so-and-so does that, but what does James do? He's a young, reasonably attractive man in a remote community by himself.
PW: Probably reading cop magazines to perfect his technique! Although he's not actively trying to get out of Lynx River, don't you think he's still hoping for that plum assignment in Ottawa sometime?
PKG: I think he has to want to do that, because I think it would make no sense for him to make that big of a switch. But more immediately, I think, well, what is it that keeps him here?
PW: Well, there's that important turning point where he tells Inspector Cormier he wants to stay to solve Michelle's shooting. The thought of him turning down a transfer to do that is amazing.
PKG: It really, really is. But it's one thing to make that decision that you want to commit yourself here to this community, but then it's like the day-to-day reality of keeping that in place. I'm exploring that all the time. And another area of tremendous importance to me is my relationship with Tina. 'Cuz I think what's going to work really, really nice for these characters is the fact that they're never going to agree. They have a different personality, and they have a different way of approaching their police work. But the thing is, I think what we see happening is the fact that they respect each other, respect each other's differences.
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PW: Which certainly wasn't true at the beginning!
PKG: Not at all. No, at the beginning I think there was a total, total disrespect for each other. And a lot of it came from [James]. [He] didn't invite her in. But she was kind of petty, too. And she still is. [laughs] But I think ideally what would be really believable that when we have those moments, that they don't take a lot of energy out of us. I say it, and she knows I'm gonna say it, and I know she's gonna say that. And once in a while, on a bad day, we might take it a little personally, but that's about it.
So I'm really, really happy that you see that, that you see him easing up, that you see him relaxing, because those are the areas that I think are really important to give the audience the depth of the character. And I just want to give them an idea of what he does when he's not investigating a crime.
PW: What do you think he does in the evenings?
PKG: I don't really know. [chuckles] I think he probably does his share of reading. I think he is very much into self-improvement. I think he's probably very meticulous, so he probably makes sure that all the files and everything are squared away.
PW: Reading forensics magazines?
PKG: Probably. Probably a lot of it is career oriented. What I really liked in the beginning, they had this guy jogging and stuff. And I have them in this movie coming up. I was written in all my scenes, he's in his RCMP outfit. Can't we just at least one scene, can we just have me showing up at work, because it's not in the city, I work in Lynx River. And I've met RCMP officers in Yellowknife and places like that, and they're a lot more relaxed. And I said why can't we have him making coffee in his jogging suit, 'cuz he just came in from a run? Why do I have to be like I've just gotten out of bed and gotten into my RCMP outfit? And to their credit, they said, "Yeah, we can do that. That makes sense." Just to give these little indications that he's doing something else than sitting in the detachment waiting.
PW: Besides which, I'd expect James to keep up a regular physical regimen as part of his striving to become the perfect policeman.
PKG: Totally. And I'm going to try to see if we can get more of those things that are not directly related to police business put in. Just little things. The way he's dressed, or maybe he's doing a chin-up and she walks in and he's embarrassed that she's caught him. A love story I think would be a really cool thing.
PW: We did have his nightmares at the opening of "In the Blue Ground," and I think he grew up quite a bit just in that two-hour movie.
PKG: You see, for me, that movie was the first time, those moments at the end with Tina, I feel that's the first time that James has ever confessed how he really felt about himself, about the doubt that he has, to anybody. And I think that did something to help their relationship. I think that was a big step for him, 'cuz that's something he probably didn't even admit to himself.
PW: That self-doubt was haunting his nightmares because he wouldn't deal with it directly.
PKG: And it just goes against the way that he sees himself. You focus your mind. You can get anything you want, but you gotta plan. And then all of a sudden you have this guy who wants to be a great cop--and he is great, because he does wonderful forensics--but the guy can't stand to be out in an area where there might be a gun trained on him. He can't even pull his own gun out and shoot somebody.
PW: And his people skills aren't too great, either!
PKG: His people skills are terrible, because he thinks that he's better than anybody else, and he isolates himself. And the community doesn't reach out to invite him in. So here you have a guy who doesn't want to be part of a community, and a community that couldn't care less if he was or not. It's one thing to not want to do something and to turn something down, but to be turned down by something you don't want to be a part of, that's really hard to take. [laughs]
PW: Or at least, he didn't admit that he wanted to be part of it.
PKG: Well, that's it. But I still get excited about the projects because I've been having conversations like the one I'm having with you right now, and I realize there's still so much to be discovered from my character. I don't think [the show] is at a point where it's going to get stale. I think we have every opportunity with the characters, the relationships, and the situations that are available to us to make this as fresh as it was in the first season.
PW: You got a Gemini nomination for "In the Blue Ground." There are a lot of excellent scenes with James in that movie, but the one I remember most is the one between James and Brian in the jail.
PKG: That was a wonderful scene, wasn't it?
PW: It sure was. You and Mr. Bockstael both did terrific jobs. He looked like a total madman! What were your impressions of that scene in particular and the movie in general?
PKG: I loved the story because it was tremendously challenging for me as an actor. It makes you work. It makes you think. Any time you deal with in-depth psychological profiles in the scene, it requires some real honest soul-searching.
The scene in particular with Brian, I'll never forget that. It's interesting you should bring that up. First of all, I was a little anxious working with Robert Bockstael, because indirectly, my character reflects his. I think there was a certain amount of resentment that Robert had, not directed at me, but at the way things were handled, and here I was going to be doing a scene with him. I remember going in and having an idea of what I was going to expect from him as an actor, and I went in and he didn't give me anything like I'd imagined. He didn't read the scene the way I thought he would. And we did it a couple of times and he didn't give me any more each time.
So we went out while they were doing the lighting, and I was kind of pacing like a caged animal because I was feeling uncomfortable, because something's not clicking here. To my credit, I went up to Robert, and I said, "What do you think about the scene?" And he gave me his opinion, and I'm like, "Well, something's not working for me. You're not giving me this, and you're not giving me that." We had this wonderful dialogue. And Robert said, "Well, Brian wouldn't give you anything. That's his game. He wouldn't give you anything." And all of a sudden it clicked with me. Of course. And if Harper knows that...It just created this wonderful tension, the two RCMP guys using what their strengths are, and they're actually dueling it out. Just that dialogue that I had with Robert grounded me.
PW: When you walked up and broached your concerns that the scene wasn't working, he was affable about it? He didn't get defensive?
PKG: No, not at all. But I don't think I broached it in a way that would say, "You were doing something wrong." It was like, "Something's not working here." He listened to me, and then, I can't even remember how he put it, but whatever he said, it made sense to me. It gave me some insight into his character which made me realize that James would know this about him. Even though he doesn't know the guy, he's a forensics person. He should be able to pick something like that up.
PW: And James probably would have researched Brian, too.
PKG: Yeah, exactly. And maybe even talked to Michelle a bit, or somebody else. And they would have said, "Well, Brian's always been withdrawn. You never know what he's [thinking]."
PW: To put it mildly!
PKG: [laughs]
PW: So after that conversation with Mr. Bockstael, you changed how James was reacting to Brian?
PKG: Yeah, my expectations of him giving me something weren't there. I realized, "You're playing with me, aren't you? So I'll play back with you. Let's just keep playing the game until we find out who gives in first. Who yells 'uncle' first." And then of course what happens is, he does. I manipulate him into confessing something. But then he gets the last laugh, because I totally underestimate him when I go in the cell."
PW: What was it that Brian spat at James when James went into the cell? Was it rice, or what?
PKG: No. Unfortunately, when you have to get a movie down to an hour and a half, sometimes you have to cut some of the insert shots. There's a moment in the detachment, before he gets carted off to the cell, where he's going around looking at the pictures of Rosemary and all that stuff. It's when Michelle takes the box out and we both have our eyes off him for a moment. There was an insert shot, and what he does is he grabs straight pins.
PW: Oh my goodness--those were pins he spat into James' face?!
PKG: Yeah, but the thing is, we took the insert shot out. He has them in his hands, and then he puts them in his mouth, and he spits them at me. But what I really liked about that scene was having the conversation with Robert and all of a sudden making a discovery there that just made the whole scene magical. We looked at the actual rushes from it, before it was pieced together, and it was just a great scene. Robert told me he had actually looked at the rushes before I did, and he had taken them home with him, and his wife looked at those specific rushes, and she said, "You know what? That's the scene. The scene in the movie."
PW: What are you up to these days between "North of 60" films?
PKG: This past break, I did a couple of guest spots. I did some work on an American episodic called "Twice in a Lifetime."
PW: Oh, yes, I saw that one. "The Escape Artist."
PKG: [2000] was a really weird year. I landed the lead in a musical that was supposed to go to London and Broadway and everything, but financing fell out at the last moment. It was "The Last of the Mohicans." It was the biggest musical to date in terms of production value and all that stuff. So I'm in contact with the producers, the creators, who work out of England, and I'm hoping that that's going to be going. But it's not looking very good right now.
I've also been going down to New York to showcase another musical called "In That Valley." The play's written; the music's done. They're just looking for financial backing to put on a full production. We do a shorter version of the show. I think we did an hour-and-a half-version of the show for prospective financers. There are two theaters that are interested in doing it.
PW: Do you have any other TV stuff lined up in the near future?
PKG: Well, I was cast in Anne Rice's "Feast of All Saints," but unfortunately because the "Dream Storm" shooting schedule kept changing, I had to keep cancelling shooting days, and eventually I had to take a pass on it.
Aside from that, right now I don't have anything lined up. There is a movie but it's really, really sketch as far as how that's going to go. And there's another film that I think one or two drafts have been written, and there's no guarantee that that's going to go anywhere either. I'm right now going off to do some work out of Banff. It's a workshop for up-and-coming female directors, and I've been asked to be part of an acting ensemble.
PW: Have you been doing any theater work in the Toronto area?
PKG: No, I was supposed to do the musical, and that's it. So right now I'm on a forced hiatus, but I'm also taking advantage of this opportunity to develop my singing voice. I've got a wonderful singing teacher and I'm working really hard on that. Also, I'm probably going to take an acting teacher that I haven't studied with in a long time that I'd like to maybe train with. Because I'm looking at going back out to Los Angeles again. I would like to go out there possibly in the fall, or maybe to New York.
PW: Do you mean temporarily?
PKG: Well, relocate for a little bit.
PW: And uproot the family?
PKG: No, I might have to do this one on my own, unfortunately. So right now I'm spending a lot of energy seeing what I have to do just to get myself primed and ready again to go and make that investment.
PW: Have you heard anything definite about a fourth "North of 60" movie?
PKG: I was doing some post-work on "Dream Storm," so I saw a bit of the rough cuts in Toronto last week. Tina was there, and Tracey. It was nice to see them; I went out with Tina for drinks and everything. I overheard Tracey saying when I walked in, "Well, it would be better doing it over the summer." But it looks like they're considering an early fall shooting date. So it looks like the obstacles are clearing away for that. But I didn't talk with Tom [Cox] specifically about it myself.
PW: Without giving away anything from what's obviously a rather intriguing plot with the dead returning and such, are there any comments you'd like to give the fans about "Dream Storm" and what you'd like them to look out for.
PKG: I think anyone who's familiar with "North of 60" is going to enjoy "Dream Storm," because it's very different than anything that's been done. It's a very, very ambitious story. Not just in terms of bringing back characters who we thought we wouldn't see again, but just the nature of the film, the existence of this other reality.
There's a lot of stuff that's taking place in another dimension, which I think will be very interesting and very challenging for the audience. Tina saw a cut of it, and she said it's really bizarre but in a really good way. But just so different from any other story that "North of 60" has done. And I talked to Tom about it, and he said that's one of the reasons they wanted to do it. They kind of were biting their fingernails a bit because it is very ambitious. So I think the fans are in for a real challenge, a real ambitious project from "North of 60." I think they're going to have to have a good night's sleep beforehand to sit down and actually follow the story. [laughs]
PW: Obviously this isn't a "sit down and read the paper while you're watching TV" type of show!
PKG: Get all your rest in, 'cuz you're gonna need it! Just focus in on the show.
PW: Well, thank you so much for your time. I'm sorry that we weren't able to talk when I visited the set, but despite the rushed visit, I had a wonderful time.
PKG: I'm glad you did, and this is wonderful, it's a great venture that you have. It's thanks to people like yourself and the web site and the other people who are following the show, I felt like this year it's breathed new life and enthusiasm into the show. I saw people like Wayne Grigsby coming back to the set. I felt myself that these guys had kind of washed their hands of this thing. And even CBC, when we did the last season, CBC did nothing in terms of publicity. With the movies, gradually you see at least some ads a few weeks in advance. So it's nice see that it's picking at steam. It seems to be picking up steam, which is really odd. Such is life!
PW: Well, it's a credit to everyone involved with the show: the producers, the writers, the actors who've made these characters come alive. People just love those characters. Even the ones who are harder to love, like Brian Fletcher, or James Harper at first. They are just such fascinating characters.
PKG: That's wonderful. Thank you so much.
Text and photos (c) 2001 Patricia F. Winter, except as noted.
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